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Re: The Shutupacut Manifesto for the FA.....

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By JustThe5, Sat 8 Dec 2007 at 8:33pm 
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StevieG wrote:

That's ridiculous. If a team freezes whilst playing, surely it's the captains responsibilty to break them out of it. On both occassions it was Gerrard and both times he played badly. Why is none of the blame being laid at his door?



The whole team was crap and Steven did freeze - he should have gone to Carson and told him not to worry, he is a good goalkeeper, but he did not. Campbell was the head of the defense and he did not say anything either. However, this is not just about one game, but 12 games as a whole.

Terry or Neville did not do either, when Robinson made a mistake against Croatia.

Macca did not support Robinson, stuck with him for 11 games and then drop him for a meaningless friendly, which was fair enough; however, to then not play him against Croatia was poor management. If he wanted to drop Robinson, he should have done so earlier.
This is not surprising, his man-management is poor, you just have to look at Carragher situation - Macca only spoke to him once and Carragher retired after the conversation.


This is like the rugby situation, good players did not play well under Ashton; When the senior players took control of the team, they reached the world cup final and played quite well and could have won against a team that taught them a rugby lesson by winning by a flattering 36-0. by flattering, I mean in terms of Englands performance, if we lost that game 50-0, it would have been fair, based on the Spring Bok performance.


We all know a lot of England players do not play as well for the national side compared to their respected clubs. If these players are not playing well or are 'lost', it is up to the coach to sort out the issue, even if it is the captain.
Would Gerrard play as bad, if Rafa was the coach of the England national team? What about under Moreen, Fergie, Wenger, Capello, or even Walter Smith?

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Re: The Shutupacut Manifesto for the FA.....

By StevieG, Sat 8 Dec 2007 at 8:43pm 
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That's an impossible question, most of our opinions of these managers are based on their club so you can't possibly predict how a player would do under them in an international team set up. They'd have much less time with their players and so less influence.
McClaren may not have been a good man manager and may have been tactically limited but you have to remember that he is not solely responsible for the team's progress. The players and back room staff come into it too. Why wasn't there any blame laid at Venables' door? Or the players'? The media singled out one person and it was sickening. McClaren, despite his short comings, was made to be a scape goat, just as Sven was before him.

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Re: The Shutupacut Manifesto for the FA.....

By JustThe5, Sat 8 Dec 2007 at 8:57pm 
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Venables was there for the money, he did nothing

The players have gotten bad press; however, not as much as much Macca. if you were a sports journalist, would you blame the new manager or players who under the previous manager always qualifed?

Sven was not made a scapegoat - the golden generation did not win a trophy in 3 attempts and only got to the q/f's on each ocassion. He was was given more then enough time (5 years). He had the everything he needed to win a trophy and he failed that is why he had to leave.
Would you, after the 2006 World Cup not be blaming Sven for the national team only eaching the q/f's when he had one of the best squads in the world for the World Cup's in 2002 and 2006, as well as Euro 2004?

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Re: The Shutupacut Manifesto for the FA.....

By StevieG, Sat 8 Dec 2007 at 9:13pm 
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I'm not looking at this from the point of view of a sports journalist, I'm looking at it as a fan. And as a fan I feel that it was a team effort to qualify and so, as a team England failed. I don't believe in scapegoats, all it does it create excuses for failure rather than looking at how to improve things.
Shuts made several good points in his original post, setting up McClaren as a fall guy won't address ANY of these inherent flaws in the FA's set up. Appointing new managers only papers over the cracks.
Like several people, I did question some of Sven's decisions, especially towards the end of his tenure but that doesn't excuse tabloids invading his private life and 'tapping him up' just before the world cup. Are things like that going to help? Then the media did attack him and he was made a scapegoat for England's failure in the WC. I agree that under his stewardship he hadn't achieved as much as we had the potential too, and this is probably why the FA let him go, but he was still made a scapegoat in the eyes of the media, and the media have a much greater influence over the pulic than the FA's press office.

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