I blame the government myself..... I mean we've had political correctness shoved down our throats for over a decade, anti "smacking" campaigns etc and this originally created a fear of being perceived as "wrong" for having certain attitudes towards yoof and so folks backed off and let the yoof get on with doing whatever the feck they liked and now the fear is of the yoof themselves.
A sad reflection on today's society. If you do get involved with youths being anti-social, you get arrested by the police working on behalf of the youths, or stabbed by the youths themselves.
As a result, people don't get involved anymore.
mexoclas wrote:
What i'd like to see is police on the streets searching people. If you have a knife on you off to prison you go, no excuses.
Obviously there are exceptions (chefs for example) and there would need to be a healthy dose of common sense involved in the arrests, but in pronciple, I agree. It would go a long way to rehabilitating the kids.
we also don't have the space in prison for loads of kids that happened to be carrying a knife because they are scared of other kids. Put them in prison surrounded by criminals and the worst of society, make them worse and potentially institutionalise them - doesn't sound like much of a solution to me!
But from Apple's original post, the kids in those sort of situations really don't have many choices. No wonder they all join gangs, you've got a better chance of not being hassled on a daily basis.
In terms of a solution, changing this culture of fear would be a start - not that it's going to happen over night. For the kids in these sorts of estates and the such, just giviing them some opportunities to progress and choose another way would be a start.
Yes, the easy answer - blame the Government for what people do.
People get fat - blame the Government.
Private companies takes stupid risks - blame the Government.
People get drunk - blame the Government.
People knife each other - blame the Government.
Maybe the reason that Britain heads towards a nanny state is that people are becoming totally incapable of taking responsibility for themselves. With the recent report of the 17 year who was forced to drink petrol and the set on fire, surely the question is: why the hell does anybody need somebody else to tell them that is wrong?
Society has always complained about it's youth. It's nothing new. Part of the reason is that adults don't know, and so fear, the world that their children live in. How many times have we heard about thugs in Hoodies? And so we fear people in Hoodies, even though their just an item of clothing. In the 50s and 60s it was rockers and teddy boys, now it's chavs and scallies. It's just history repeating itself.
That's a good point ProPlus. Society has always had a problem with 'youths'. Mods and rockers, the Beatles and the Stones were a sign of a degenerate society.
The courts do really need to get tough on knife crime, with strong sentences for those carrying or using knives. It happened in Glasgow in the 60s and 70s and a few life sentences soon eradicated much of the knife culture.
Incidentally, I am allowed to carry a knife if I am dressed in my highland outfit ! National costume is a specific exemption to the law in relation to dangerous weapons.
I said yesterday that it is interesting to note that most of the offenders/victims were black.
Which ever way you look at that fact, there is something to consider there.
As for firmer sentences; recedivism of violent crime is quite large, and the crime of knife violence would only get displaced to another type of violence, which, ironically is the reason we have more (perceived) knife crime now.
I think some of this is down to a drip, drip, drip of measures by successive governments that have made money king and seriously disadvantaged those without it. My memory stretches back as far as Thatcher but I'm sure there's folks here who can fill in the blanks. In no particular order...
Thatcher's "Everyone's out for themselves" attitude - The cacky old witch destroyed society and what was left of local democracy so now there's no pride in your local community and neighbours don't hold each other in check. I think this also goes some way to explaining why people don't take responsibility for their actions these days. If there's no one around to judge you and you can try it on with a court case - like that guy who sued William Hill because they didn't stop him betting - then some people obviously think it's worth trying it on.
Getting rid of grammar schools - Not perfect, but they were often the only way for poor kids to get out of the rut they were in. Streaming in schools wasn't ideal either but at least it gave kids who wanted to try the opportunity to better themselves.
Debasement of the teaching profession - More paperwork, less recognition for teachers etc so who could blame them when they stopped supporting after school sports and other clubs. And where can you hold lessons after Mrs Thatch sold off countless school playing fields?
Abolition of student grants - If you have to borrow £££ to go to university it's not surprising many from poorer backgrounds don't bother these days.
The government not accepting the EU's minimum wage recommendations in full - Labour bowed to big business and slashed the amount employers had to pay. Shame on them!
Unfair and bureaucratic tax system - There's been a massive shift in the tax burden from rich to poor over the last 20 years. Why this government scrapped the 10p tax band rather than clamping down on fat cats is beyond me.
Lack of role models/ wrong ones - Footballers and WAGS have replaced anyone of substance. If you can snag a sports star why bother with your exams? Besides, academics get paid a pittance anyway.
Nothing for kids to do these days - If you have to get a police check to run a Scouts group, say, then why bother? Also most folks are out for themselves these days (see first point above) so the thought of doing something for their local community wouldn't occur to them.
I could go on all day. I think it's easy to say 'birch kids', 'bring back National Service' or 'blame the PC brigade' but in my humble opinion the situation we find ourselves in is way more complicated than that. Hence this long post (well done if you've got this far).
I agree that every generation has a problem with its youths, but where do they get their ideas from other than all of us? My lad's an empty vessel - he's learning from me, his mum and society as a whole. We get the kids we deserve.
I agree that every generation has a problem with its youths, but where do they get their ideas from other than all of us? My lad's an empty vessel - he's learning from me, his mum and society as a whole. We get the kids we deserve.
Interesting post, but I think this is the most relevant point, although I also agree with the playing fields and teacher points. Blaming Thatcher for a lack of community spirit though is, in my opinion, wrong. When have communities looked out for one another rather than for themselves? It's a dog eat dog world, and always has been. There are now more people attending university than ever before. The lack of poorer students isn't the problem, it's the view that university is seen as a 'rite of passage' where you go to get drunk, party and study- in that order. In fact, in recent years, there's been a lack of people in the manual professions such a plumbing, meaning that migrant workers have taken these jobs and are able to charge a premium price. But it goes deeper than that. Outside influences i.e. society as a whole, hold a lot more sway with impressionable children. Take television adverts for fast food chains, they attract kids to their stores for the toys etc and they start eating the food. This is just down to culture. A child could be influenced by Ronaldo and train every day with a ball, or by 50 Cent and go around telling people he's going to 'smoke 'em'! At the end of the day, it's the idiots and the violence that grab the headlines but it's the lack of trying to understand our children and their world that cause the problems.
