Bob De Niro’s latest is long and slow but, if you give it a chance, it brings its own rewards. Click for our verdict, the trailer and tell us what you think.
Here's an interview with Bob you may be interested in...
You were working on your own CIA story and decided to combine it with Eric Roth’s?
RDN: Yes, it was another story, not necessarily CIA. I was trying to find what it was about and it was going in another direction that I wasn’t as keen on as the whole Cold War, East versus West, the traditional CIA-KGB thing. Mine was a later period and when I read The Good Shepherd I asked Eric Roth if he was interested in working on this other project. He wasn’t interested but we then agreed that if I direct The Good Shepherd, he’d write a second installment, if we were that lucky. That’s not guaranteed; it’s not so easy.
What went into the decision to jump back and forth through the time periods?
RDN: The original script was linear, and then over the years it morphed into a back and forth thing, which I liked. That always seemed to be the way to approach it, as complicated as that is.
You say that the CIA basically came out of the Skull & Bones at Yale?
RDN: That’s kind of it. More than a few of the OSS guys from the Second World War, like Matt’s character were from Yale and Princeton and some from Harvard. They were from the upper classes and had more investment in the future of America in terms of what they were, kind of this royalty. That’s what it was in the beginning.
Why was this film easier to get made after 9/11?
RDN: I’m not sure it was easier to get it made after 9/11. I had been working on it for a few years before then, trying to get it going. Once 9/11 happened I thought that was that. But then it started getting momentum. I’m not even sure how, but it was revived.
Is the story more relevant now, considering what the CIA is doing now in combating terrorism?
RDN: The CIA’s been getting a lot of attention as we know, so this movie coming out now, it’s sort of interesting.
Do you think the stigma attached to the CIA now is warranted?
RDN: I personally don’t so. I think it’s much more complicated than that. You don’t hear the things that they do and what it’s all about. They don’t take credit for certain things, but they do make mistakes, as we’ve seen, and hopefully things will be improved. And because of the exposure, at the end of the day it might be a good thing.
Tell me about your global CIA tour with Milt Bearden?
RDN: We went to Pakistan and into Afghanistan a little bit. It was quite a trip. We also went to the former Soviet Union and met Milt’s ex-counterparts from the KGB who he was in touch with in the early 1980s. They had certain common interests, working against terrorism and that was an interesting trip. These guys were very real, human beings and very smart.
Did you gain an appreciation of the sacrifice these men and women make?
RDN: Yes I did. Absolutely, and they never get any credit for it. That’s the whole point of it — and that’s special.
Why so long in between directing gigs, with A Bronx Tale, released in 1993?
RDN: Because I was working on The Good Shepherd for seven or eight years, and another project for a year or two, so that makes ten years. Actually it wasn’t that much time. It took a long time to get this going.
Did you meet the real guy upon whom your character in the film was based?
RDN: Donovan. No, he passed away in the mid 70s, certainly a while ago. But I’d have loved to have met him, yes.
It’s back to the beginning for you — without the CIA there’d be no Jason Bourne.
MD: That’s true – it’s been an agency that’s provided me with great career opportunities!
The film suggests that the film was born from this elitist society.
MD: Well it was. The people who were there at the beginning did come out of this set, Skull & Bones, and this is all based on fact. It’s a very well documented time and there have been countless biographies written about the men who were there at the beginning. There’s a lot of information available so we wanted to be accurate in terms of representing how things actually were.
Your character’s a composite based mainly on James Angleton, right?
MD: Yeah, we didn’t want to come out and have it be Angleton because then you’re making a biopic which is something entirely different and wasn’t what we wanted to do. He was partly a model for the character though.
Looking at some of your recent roles, if they’re looking for a serious SOB with no sense of humor, do they always come to you?
MD: Well hopefully not in real life. Hopefully I am a little more fun that Edward. But in terms of this role, that’s what was required. And that was the great thing for me – doing this with De Niro. All through shooting he was sitting as close to me as you are now, just off camera, watching every detail of the performance and helping me, urging me to go one way or another in a scene. He was very hands on, and a very particular, detail orientated director. So that was great for me.
Was it unusual for you to be as understated and unemotional as your character?
MD: It is unusual to be given permission to do that. Most films and directors lose their nerve and want to indicate a bit more, to show that their story is clear. I’m not saying that’s a good thing; as an actor its anathema to good acting, but to have someone with the confidence to say that should I be utterly natural and minimalist was great, because that’s what these characters are. To broadcast their feelings is putting them in danger, potentially, so they would mask their emotions.
Did you find yourself taking on De Niro-isms?
MD: No, he’s so unique, you’d be accused of imitating him!
As a new father, are you more aware of the sacrifices these guys make in terms of their family?
MD: Most definitely, and the price that the job exacts. We did lots of research and met some family members of some of the original guys in the CIA and it’s a shared sacrifice. The family sacrificed too. The agents are very busy, don’t come back much, and that’s a burden borne by the family as well.
Now there’s a stigma attached to the CIA. Do you think that’s warranted?
MD: Well, it’s confusing, because it’s always changing. The rules have changed in the last few years, too. I think it’s something that the citizenry needs to be vigilant about – participating in democracy, and that includes issues like what’s going on now, and how much secrecy and transparency there should be. That’s an ongoing thing – in a democracy you want checks and balances and oversight, but you need a covert agency to protect the country. It’s a very tricky balance and I think it changes as the world changes and I think we all need to be mindful of that.
In the film, people like your character were held as idealists and true patriots. When did idealism get such a bad name?
MD: Well it’s a fine line. People do things in the names of good, and in the name of ideals, but the world isn’t that simple. So they end up doing things that aren’t necessarily good. Even if they think they’re doing the right thing, but when viewed from a different perspective they can look barbaric and crazy. I think in terms of playing the role, my job was to understand why he did everything that he did. And that was no problem – the script was well constructed, and even though he does some unseemly things there’s a reason why he does them. And there’s a rationale to why he’s doing them.
You’ve know Angelina for a few years and you’ve become closer more recently. Did that help at all?
MD: It was interesting because she’s so unlike the character that she plays. I can’t imagine Angelina suffering in a relationship where she’s not happy. She’s very independent and very strong and yet she plays a woman very much of that time, who would live that quiet life of silent suffering for the sake of her son. I was joking with her that whatever her instinct was she’d do the opposite thing, and that’s how she’d find the character. But it’s a testament to her skill as an actor that she’s so good at playing someone who’s so different from her.
The spies in this film are a little different from Mr & Mrs Smith?
AJ: Yes, sadly I don’t get to be one in this film – I’m the sad housewife. It was different and it was hard not playing with the boys. And it was hard to be that kind f a woman. There was a certain repression at that time, and playing a woman like that was hard for me.
Did your character seem a bit proper to you at first?
AJ: I’ve done period stuff, and she’s a bit proper, but she’s not the perfect cookie cutter housewife and she’s quite fiery at the beginning. Also, she speaks up more than anyone else in the movie; she’s a bit wild. She’s stopped by her time, and held back from what she’d like to do. If I were trapped by the CIA I’m sure personally I’d fight more, and in a different way!
There’s a stigma around the CIA now and a sinister connation. Why?
AJ: I think you should be suspicious – you should question elements of your government. They are the ones who hold the secrets and information, and sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they don’t. I think it’s important to remember that.
The first time you worked with De Niro was on a Shark Tale.
AJ: Yeah, we were fish. This was as a dram job – I love the writer, Eric Roth, and Matt, and to do anything with De Niro is a dream come true.
But not all actors make great directors.
AJ: That’s true. But Bob sees the bigger picture. As an actor, in his films he’s not just thought about his character, he’s thought about the whole story, and how his character fits into it. So he sees this film and it’s not just a study in behavior and characters – it’s the whole story, the history and the people, the detail. And he’s very passionate about film. He’s obsessive about detail and research and works really hard.
He had to cut the film quite a lot. Did you expect to be in it more?
AJ: No, pretty much everything I shot is in there. I would have done a day’s work on this film. As an actor it should never be about the size of the role. It should be about the character and really believing in the whole story. I support this movie and would do so in any small way.
You’re playing Mariane Pearl next, and that’s a story buried in intrigue.
AJ: There are so many different layers to that story. We’ve shot it already, I think we have an extra day to shoot, and it’s a very heavy story but it deals with faith. All kinds of faith, and faiths coming together and the friendships of the people, the team that was trying to find him. Pearl embarks on a search to locate her journalist husband, Daniel, when he goes missing in Pakistan. It deals with the darkness of that situation – the loss, and the fact that Mariane was pregnant at the time. There are many, many things.
Loved this but then I'm a sucker for cold war based spy flicks. Damon was great and I thought Jolie brought a lot of warmth despite her limited screen time.
As for her looking a little under the weather at times, you've got to remember she was pregnant during filming and even collapsed a couple of times on set.
For a film that puts such a premium on detail and commitment it’s rather a surprise to see that there are only a handful of deleted scenes included in the special features package, with no contribution from De Niro whatsoever.
